Melatonin - possible sticky??

I didn't want to hijack the other thread discussing supplements - but since tart cherry juice and melatonin was mentioned, I thought I would post this (from my thread on TNN) regarding melatonin

Melatonin sources ( Rieter and Tan, 2002).

Melatonin source Melatonin content (ng/g)

Huang-qin 7,110
St. John’s wort, flower 4,390
Fever few, green leaf 2,450
Fever few, gold leaf 1,920
St. John’s wort, leaf 1,750
White mustard seed 189
Black mustard seed 129
Wolf berry seed 103
Fenugreek seed 43
Sunflower seed 29
Fennel seed 28
Alfalfa seed 16
Green cardamom seed 15
Tart cherry fruit (Montmorency) 15
Flax seed 12
Anise seed 7
Coriander seed 7
Celery seed 7
Poppy seed 6
Milk thistle seed 2
Tart cherry fruit (Balaton) 2

Currently DD1 doesn't take anything, but she is ok at bed times - it is DD3 at 15 months who is the nightmare sleeper!!! She gets tart cherry juice every night (not that it works so well ) so she can get used to sleeping through the night!

does melatonin help with staying asleep or just falling asleep. Mikko is great at bedtime but not so great at 2am

To be honest, I don't know - this is the same problem I have with DD3 - which gets me all upset at 3am when I have been up with her for 2 hours!! (I keep stressing that she will be the same as DD1 )

teegee wrote:To be honest, I don't know - this is the same problem I have with DD3 - which gets me all upset at 3am when I have been up with her for 2 hours!! (I keep stressing that she will be the same as DD1 )

I have heard that calcium and magnesium are good for sleep also. With Mikko we have had to secure him in his room at night or he would be up and waking everyone. Fortunately he doesn't cry when he wakes just bumps around kicks the walls a bit but mostly just plays and giggles. I put a mini trampoiline in his room which I hear him bounching on. He then goes back to sleep

eta i don't know how to do sticky threads yet but will try and sort it later

I gave my son tart cherry juice for a long time. I think it really helped, and the best thing is that when we stopped it, he still kept sleeping well
It helps to reset the body clock so that it is easier to get to sleep and stay asleep.
It is an acquired taste, so may be tricky to get into your child. I made Williams quite strong in a glass of water, and he just thinks it's juice (he doesn't get regular juice!)

There are two types of melatonin you can get. The tablets are quick acting; about 30 minutes after being taken. The caps are slow release and help to keep you asleep overnight. We only ever used the tabs and they did get Ian into a better sleep routine. Daylight savings however is disturbing that atm.

sewsable wrote:There are two types of melatonin you can get. The tablets are quick acting; about 30 minutes after being taken. The caps are slow release and help to keep you asleep overnight. We only ever used the tabs and they did get Ian into a better sleep routine. Daylight savings however is disturbing that atm.

oh that's interesting! Yesterday the paed prescribed melatonin for Mikko but said it would work quickly and might not help Mikko as he doesn't usually get wakeful till 2am. Sounds like the caps would be a lot better

We sell the tablets and liquid at my work. We have had a few people return the tablets after they have had terrible dreams, so I would suggest against giving the tablets to kids if they have had issues with night terrors before. I do know other people that have had no problems with them though, and found them very beneficial.

Crudefitik wrote:We sell the tablets and liquid at my work. We have had a few people return the tablets after they have had terrible dreams, so I would suggest against giving the tablets to kids if they have had issues with night terrors before. I do know other people that have had no problems with them though, and found them very beneficial.

I have not filled the script yet. Do you think if I ask when i take it in they will give me the caps? Or is that a totally different thing?

From memory the 1mg is tablets (Ian used to chew them) and the 2mg is caps; that's just in NZ though. I filled my scrips through the manufacturer in USA which was cheaper by a lot even considering shipping. I had to email a copy of the script to them to be included in the package otherwise customs would stop it at the border and you have to make sure they only send what's on the script; so I had to pay for a full bottle when I could only get part of it.

sewsable wrote:From memory the 1mg is tablets (Ian used to chew them) and the 2mg is caps; that's just in NZ though. I filled my scrips through the manufacturer in USA which was cheaper by a lot even considering shipping. I had to email a copy of the script to them to be included in the package otherwise customs would stop it at the border and you have to make sure they only send what's on the script; so I had to pay for a full bottle when I could only get part of it.

Oh I had assumed they were fully subsidised - d'oh! so how much are we looking at?

I can't remember now, but I think it was getting close to $100 for the max number of 1mg that my doctor could subscribe. I don't know why they're not subsidised; they certainly should be, but Pharmac is odd about some things.

Seriously, starting to think about giving her something, to help her sleep better, yet again here we are awake but honestly dont know where to start. As she seems to go through patchs of sleeping fine, then she'll go back to waking up all the time.

renee_chch wrote:Seriously, starting to think about giving her something, to help her sleep better, yet again here we are awake but honestly dont know where to start. As she seems to go through patchs of sleeping fine, then she'll go back to waking up all the time.

this is Mikko too. The last 2 nights he has slept thru. The last 2 nights I have also left music playing for him (soothing music), not sure if it is that or just a conincidence though as he does have patches of sleeping well. I will get some melatonin anyway to try. Plus I figure it will be handy to take before our flight on Wed!

I am going to start a new thread re tart cherry juice - as I heard something at the Parent & Child Show yesterday that was interesting!

I also bought some Sleep Aid drops (which are in DD3's room right now ), and hopefully they help her sleep!!!

got Mikko's melatonin script filled today. So even though he has slept through the last 4 nights I am wondering if I should give it a shot tonight as a practise run and then take it with us to aussie tomorrow morning in case sleep turns to custard (as it inevitably does when you go and stay with someone ).

does melatonin NOT work for some people? I have tried it 4 times with Mikko now. Once at home and 3 times while we were away and it doesn't make him go to sleep at all - in fact it may do the opposite!?! I gave him the tablets in juice would that have stopped it working?

I have a friend on line who is studying to be a naturopath (sp?) and i remember her saying something about its affects on ASD kids.....will ask her. I have a feeling it can do the opposite in some situations.

The always worked for Ian, we needed a 1.5mg dose for him. Started in juice but I noticed it didn't dissolve and left a lot of tablet residue on the glass. In the end he surprised us and was happy to just chew them!

sewsable wrote:The always worked for Ian, we needed a 1.5mg dose for him. Started in juice but I noticed it didn't dissolve and left a lot of tablet residue on the glass. In the end he surprised us and was happy to just chew them!

I tried to get him to chew but it was a definate no Mikko's is 3mg. There was a lot left at the bottom of the cup so I put more juice in and in the end he got most of it. One night I gave it to him at 12am and he didn't sleep till 11am

He hardly slept at all on our whole holiday - was fun though

Bugger, looks like I'm back to the doctors to get a new melatonin prescription. Ian's not getting to sleep till after 10pm again and his lack of sleep is impacting on his behaviour at school as well as on his brother and me. He's got a cough atm which isn't helping, but that's not the main cause I don't think. Still got some left luckily so gave him one tonight and he's already asleep. I really wish it weren't a controlled substance, then I could just order it in from the US and have done with it.

sewsable wrote:Bugger, looks like I'm back to the doctors to get a new melatonin prescription. Ian's not getting to sleep till after 10pm again and his lack of sleep is impacting on his behaviour at school as well as on his brother and me. He's got a cough atm which isn't helping, but that's not the main cause I don't think. Still got some left luckily so gave him one tonight and he's already asleep. I really wish it weren't a controlled substance, then I could just order it in from the US and have done with it.

bugger! Thankfully Mikko always crashes out at around 7pm. He's always wiped out as he moves ALL day and doesn't nap. Unfortunately he still wakes at 2am

Just made the docs appointment, luckily we have a bit left over cos we've got stuff on after school each day till Tuesday next week!
Also emailed the Autism Society to find out if they've approached Pharmac about the melatonin problem

I spoke to a lady from the MoH a few weeks ago about this - it is apparently still ok for us order this from overseas sites if we have a prescription, the problem is with companies (i-herb for example) deciding not to send it as they had too many orders being returned by NZ customs because the customer at this end didn't have the correct paper work or a prescription. I-herb have no plans at this stage to resume sending it to NZ but I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask them again.

MoH said that if we could fax or email the script to the company sending it and that paperwork was included with the order, then customs would happily let it through for delivery.

Kiwigem wrote:I spoke to a lady from the MoH a few weeks ago about this - it is apparently still ok for us order this from overseas sites if we have a prescription, the problem is with companies (i-herb for example) deciding not to send it as they had too many orders being returned by NZ customs because the customer at this end didn't have the correct paper work or a prescription. I-herb have no plans at this stage to resume sending it to NZ but I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask them again.

MoH said that if we could fax or email the script to the company sending it and that paperwork was included with the order, then customs would happily let it through for delivery.

That's exactly what I do, I buy direct from the makers website.